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		<title>Comment on Can Biofuels Solve the Problem of Price / Supply of Fuel for the Aviation Industry by Outdoor stove on my pop up trailer is barely getting any propane; why?</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/19/can-biofuels-solve-the-problem-of-price-supply-of-fuel-for-the-aviation-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-811</link>
		<dc:creator>Outdoor stove on my pop up trailer is barely getting any propane; why?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Can Biofuels Solve the Problem of Price / Supply of Fuel for the Aviation Industry &#124; Plane Conversat... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Can Biofuels Solve the Problem of Price / Supply of Fuel for the Aviation Industry | Plane Conversat&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on NexGen Cockpit Upgrades: Who pays for it? by 9 Types Of Pilot Certification &#8211; What You Must Know</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/18/nexgen-cockpit-upgrades-who-pays-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-810</link>
		<dc:creator>9 Types Of Pilot Certification &#8211; What You Must Know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] NexGen Cockpit Upgrades: Who pays for it? &#124; Plane Conversations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NexGen Cockpit Upgrades: Who pays for it? | Plane Conversations [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Can Biofuels Solve the Problem of Price / Supply of Fuel for the Aviation Industry by Allen Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/19/can-biofuels-solve-the-problem-of-price-supply-of-fuel-for-the-aviation-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planeconversations.com/?p=3224#comment-808</guid>
		<description>For more on this subject follow the link to a March 17 article by Arthur Max in Business Week:  

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9EGE5RG0.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more on this subject follow the link to a March 17 article by Arthur Max in Business Week:  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9EGE5RG0.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9EGE5RG0.htm</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on NexGen Cockpit Upgrades: Who pays for it? by Allen Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/18/nexgen-cockpit-upgrades-who-pays-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-807</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planeconversations.com/?p=3247#comment-807</guid>
		<description>Malcolm: 

Point well made. I had not thought about this in light of international competition. The US government paying for the upgrades would set an unfair costing advantage. Low interest loans might still be in order. Our EXIM bank provides low interest financing already to carriers world wide when they buy Boeing so that is a tested model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malcolm: </p>
<p>Point well made. I had not thought about this in light of international competition. The US government paying for the upgrades would set an unfair costing advantage. Low interest loans might still be in order. Our EXIM bank provides low interest financing already to carriers world wide when they buy Boeing so that is a tested model.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Can Biofuels Solve the Problem of Price / Supply of Fuel for the Aviation Industry by uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/19/can-biofuels-solve-the-problem-of-price-supply-of-fuel-for-the-aviation-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-806</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by jadoty01: Is it possible tomake jet fuel from algae? http://is.gd/aNWKb...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by jadoty01: Is it possible tomake jet fuel from algae? <a href="http://is.gd/aNWKb.." rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/aNWKb..</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on NexGen Cockpit Upgrades: Who pays for it? by malcolm cox</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/18/nexgen-cockpit-upgrades-who-pays-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-805</link>
		<dc:creator>malcolm cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This an interesting one, if the US Government does support the US carriers that is imparting an unfair advantage on to them, who will support all the non-US carriers flying to the States from the rest of the world, they will be required to impliment the changes to support their schedules. Aviation is an international issue and not a purely domestic subject. I suspect that the WTO and EU would have something to say about support for domestic only carriers.

So long as the US Government does not switch the current technology off, and there is a trasitio period, I believe it is the responsibility of the carrier, it will become a marketing/branding/positioning issue, customers can choose a carrier that will fly more directly with the equipment or they can choose to fly with a carrier under the current regime. 

Malcolm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This an interesting one, if the US Government does support the US carriers that is imparting an unfair advantage on to them, who will support all the non-US carriers flying to the States from the rest of the world, they will be required to impliment the changes to support their schedules. Aviation is an international issue and not a purely domestic subject. I suspect that the WTO and EU would have something to say about support for domestic only carriers.</p>
<p>So long as the US Government does not switch the current technology off, and there is a trasitio period, I believe it is the responsibility of the carrier, it will become a marketing/branding/positioning issue, customers can choose a carrier that will fly more directly with the equipment or they can choose to fly with a carrier under the current regime. </p>
<p>Malcolm</p>
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		<title>Comment on NexGen Cockpit Upgrades: Who pays for it? by uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/18/nexgen-cockpit-upgrades-who-pays-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-803</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planeconversations.com/?p=3247#comment-803</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by cfmcharter: Who pays for NextGen avionics upgrades? http://short.to/1momx...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by cfmcharter: Who pays for NextGen avionics upgrades? <a href="http://short.to/1momx.." rel="nofollow">http://short.to/1momx..</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uh-Oh.  Here Comes The Sun. by Jon Anne Doty</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/17/uh-oh-here-comes-the-sun/comment-page-1/#comment-802</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Anne Doty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planeconversations.com/?p=3227#comment-802</guid>
		<description>@John Herbert – thank you for giving the correct cause of the flight loss and for reiterating the value of training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John Herbert – thank you for giving the correct cause of the flight loss and for reiterating the value of training.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uh-Oh.  Here Comes The Sun. by John Herbert</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/17/uh-oh-here-comes-the-sun/comment-page-1/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>John Herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planeconversations.com/?p=3227#comment-800</guid>
		<description>Mr. Doty:
     If you look at the NTSB report on Flight 3407, including the simulation, the autopilot was not the problem.  The problem was a continuous violation of the sterile cockpit rules, resulting in a total loss of situational awareness, so that the flight crew let the aircraft speed decay until the plane stalled.  When the aircraft tried to recover automatically, the pilot overrode the nose-down stick and pulled back, basically dropping the airspeed to zero.  Fatigue and limited training and experience were also involved.  Tragically, this same accident has happened many times before in slightly different forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Doty:<br />
     If you look at the NTSB report on Flight 3407, including the simulation, the autopilot was not the problem.  The problem was a continuous violation of the sterile cockpit rules, resulting in a total loss of situational awareness, so that the flight crew let the aircraft speed decay until the plane stalled.  When the aircraft tried to recover automatically, the pilot overrode the nose-down stick and pulled back, basically dropping the airspeed to zero.  Fatigue and limited training and experience were also involved.  Tragically, this same accident has happened many times before in slightly different forms.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Uh-Oh.  Here Comes The Sun. by starviego</title>
		<link>http://www.planeconversations.com/2010/03/17/uh-oh-here-comes-the-sun/comment-page-1/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>starviego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planeconversations.com/?p=3227#comment-798</guid>
		<description>Pilot error mý ass:



NTSB Dockets, File 431227--witness statements

pg2 of 131
Vicki Braun
...plane engine had &#039;&#039;echo sound&#039;&#039; then sounded like the engine stopped then heard a &#039;&#039;boom.&#039;&#039;

pg6 of 131
Shannon Alessandra
Just prior to the airplane crashing, the engines made a &#039;&#039;weird sound.&#039;&#039;

pg7 of 131
Jean Andreassen
Andreassen stated that she heard strange noises from the engines

pg8 of 131
Kristen and Aaron Archambeault
They both described the engine noise as &#039;&#039;sputtering&#039;&#039;

pg11 of 131
Michele Beiter
Michele stated the noise &#039;skipped&#039; and she was relieved it stopped, and then it started again. Michel is positive there was a skip. Michele further described everthing she heard as, &#039;Noise, skip, noise, loud noise.&#039;

pg13 of 131
Robert Bijak
The engines sounded like a metallic rattle and remined Bijak of a car engine with no oil in it.

pg14 of 131
Tin Bojarski
The plane did not sound right and sort of sounded like a car with a broken muffler.

pg17 of 131
Ronald Braunscheidel
...he heard a very loud spitting and sputtering sound of a plane engine flying overhead. Braunscheidel described the noise as a car without a muffler.

pg 18 of 131
Sharon Brennan
Brennan believed the plane was... maybe in trouble based on the noise.

pg28 of 131
Dan Cizdziel
...heard a sputtering, binging noise to the north.... 

pg42 of 131
Doug Errick
Errick indicated that as the plane got closer the engines became very rough. Errick thought the engines were coming on and off, almost like engines were trying to come back on, but couldn&#039;t remain running. Errick thought the engines were changing RPMs rapidly.

pg49 of 131
Mary Grefrath
Grefrath recalled that the engine sounded like it was spuddering.

pg66 of 131
Jean Larocque
Larocque... stated he heard puttering plane... Larocque reported that the engines were not making a uniform sound.

pg 77 of 131
Molly Merlo
...she heard the airplane make a &#039;&#039;gurgling&#039;&#039; sound.

pg81 of 131
Marianne Neri
The engine noise did not sound like a normal plane, but more like a helicopter. It was obvious something was wrong with the engines.

pg85 of 131
Angela Pillo
The sound was very loud and &#039;&#039;rough,&#039;&#039; as if the engine was having trouble. The sound was further described as sounding like a &#039;&#039;lawn mower&#039;&#039;

pg91 of 131
Lisa Rott
....she heard a consistent low grumbling sound that she believed to be a propeller plane. Rott advised that the sound the plane&#039;s engines was not smooth and did not sound like other propeller planes that she has heard in the past.

pg96 of 131
Kenneth Smith
...heard a big bag then continued to hear the sound of airplane engines.

pg89 of 131
Joseph Summers
...heard a plane which was very low and didn&#039;t sound normal. Mr. Summers cited a &#039;&#039;rambling noise&#039;&#039; which sounded as if an engine was not running properly.

pg101 of 131
Rick Telfair
Telfair stated he then heard a winding or grinding noise, then a screeching or grinding noise and approximately 20-30 seconds later heard a large boom... Telfair further described the noise of the engine as fighting, almost as though they were trying to go faster but couldn&#039;t, not accelerating but distressed.

pg 102 of 131
Denise Trabucco
Trabucco described the sound as a humming, similar to a transformer prior to it blowing. Aafter the humming, Trabucco heard a popping sound. ... About a minute after the humming and popping sound, Trabucco and her family felt a vibration that felt a little like an earthquake.

pg105 of 131
Lorraine Unverzart
The airplane engines made a &#039;&#039;chugging&#039;&#039; sound, similar to a &#039;&#039;spark plug misfiring.&#039;&#039;

pg106 of 131
Louis Vitello
...he heard the plane engines sputtering as it approached, and then heard a &#039;&#039;popping sound.&#039;&#039; Immediately after that Mr. Vitello heard &#039;&#039;grinding&#039;&#039; noised, stating that the noises reminded him of gears grinding together, sounding like the gears were missing teeth.

pg124 of 131
David Wolf
...the engines were making an unusual &#039;&#039;shuttering&#039;&#039; sound 

pg126 of 131
Melissa Wols
She stated she heard the plane.... grinding and sputtering as it approached and passed over his residence. Wols advised it sounded similar to what grinding metal would sound like.

pg129 of 131
Rita Zirnheld
It &#039;&#039;sounded like spttering&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;engine was coughing.&#039;&#039;

pg130 of 131
Barbara Garrett
She said the plane engine was making loud noises, as though metal was banging and clattering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pilot error mý ass:</p>
<p>NTSB Dockets, File 431227&#8211;witness statements</p>
<p>pg2 of 131<br />
Vicki Braun<br />
&#8230;plane engine had &#8221;echo sound&#8221; then sounded like the engine stopped then heard a &#8221;boom.&#8221;</p>
<p>pg6 of 131<br />
Shannon Alessandra<br />
Just prior to the airplane crashing, the engines made a &#8221;weird sound.&#8221;</p>
<p>pg7 of 131<br />
Jean Andreassen<br />
Andreassen stated that she heard strange noises from the engines</p>
<p>pg8 of 131<br />
Kristen and Aaron Archambeault<br />
They both described the engine noise as &#8216;&#8217;sputtering&#8221;</p>
<p>pg11 of 131<br />
Michele Beiter<br />
Michele stated the noise &#8217;skipped&#8217; and she was relieved it stopped, and then it started again. Michel is positive there was a skip. Michele further described everthing she heard as, &#8216;Noise, skip, noise, loud noise.&#8217;</p>
<p>pg13 of 131<br />
Robert Bijak<br />
The engines sounded like a metallic rattle and remined Bijak of a car engine with no oil in it.</p>
<p>pg14 of 131<br />
Tin Bojarski<br />
The plane did not sound right and sort of sounded like a car with a broken muffler.</p>
<p>pg17 of 131<br />
Ronald Braunscheidel<br />
&#8230;he heard a very loud spitting and sputtering sound of a plane engine flying overhead. Braunscheidel described the noise as a car without a muffler.</p>
<p>pg 18 of 131<br />
Sharon Brennan<br />
Brennan believed the plane was&#8230; maybe in trouble based on the noise.</p>
<p>pg28 of 131<br />
Dan Cizdziel<br />
&#8230;heard a sputtering, binging noise to the north&#8230;. </p>
<p>pg42 of 131<br />
Doug Errick<br />
Errick indicated that as the plane got closer the engines became very rough. Errick thought the engines were coming on and off, almost like engines were trying to come back on, but couldn&#8217;t remain running. Errick thought the engines were changing RPMs rapidly.</p>
<p>pg49 of 131<br />
Mary Grefrath<br />
Grefrath recalled that the engine sounded like it was spuddering.</p>
<p>pg66 of 131<br />
Jean Larocque<br />
Larocque&#8230; stated he heard puttering plane&#8230; Larocque reported that the engines were not making a uniform sound.</p>
<p>pg 77 of 131<br />
Molly Merlo<br />
&#8230;she heard the airplane make a &#8221;gurgling&#8221; sound.</p>
<p>pg81 of 131<br />
Marianne Neri<br />
The engine noise did not sound like a normal plane, but more like a helicopter. It was obvious something was wrong with the engines.</p>
<p>pg85 of 131<br />
Angela Pillo<br />
The sound was very loud and &#8221;rough,&#8221; as if the engine was having trouble. The sound was further described as sounding like a &#8221;lawn mower&#8221;</p>
<p>pg91 of 131<br />
Lisa Rott<br />
&#8230;.she heard a consistent low grumbling sound that she believed to be a propeller plane. Rott advised that the sound the plane&#8217;s engines was not smooth and did not sound like other propeller planes that she has heard in the past.</p>
<p>pg96 of 131<br />
Kenneth Smith<br />
&#8230;heard a big bag then continued to hear the sound of airplane engines.</p>
<p>pg89 of 131<br />
Joseph Summers<br />
&#8230;heard a plane which was very low and didn&#8217;t sound normal. Mr. Summers cited a &#8221;rambling noise&#8221; which sounded as if an engine was not running properly.</p>
<p>pg101 of 131<br />
Rick Telfair<br />
Telfair stated he then heard a winding or grinding noise, then a screeching or grinding noise and approximately 20-30 seconds later heard a large boom&#8230; Telfair further described the noise of the engine as fighting, almost as though they were trying to go faster but couldn&#8217;t, not accelerating but distressed.</p>
<p>pg 102 of 131<br />
Denise Trabucco<br />
Trabucco described the sound as a humming, similar to a transformer prior to it blowing. Aafter the humming, Trabucco heard a popping sound. &#8230; About a minute after the humming and popping sound, Trabucco and her family felt a vibration that felt a little like an earthquake.</p>
<p>pg105 of 131<br />
Lorraine Unverzart<br />
The airplane engines made a &#8221;chugging&#8221; sound, similar to a &#8216;&#8217;spark plug misfiring.&#8221;</p>
<p>pg106 of 131<br />
Louis Vitello<br />
&#8230;he heard the plane engines sputtering as it approached, and then heard a &#8221;popping sound.&#8221; Immediately after that Mr. Vitello heard &#8221;grinding&#8221; noised, stating that the noises reminded him of gears grinding together, sounding like the gears were missing teeth.</p>
<p>pg124 of 131<br />
David Wolf<br />
&#8230;the engines were making an unusual &#8216;&#8217;shuttering&#8221; sound </p>
<p>pg126 of 131<br />
Melissa Wols<br />
She stated she heard the plane&#8230;. grinding and sputtering as it approached and passed over his residence. Wols advised it sounded similar to what grinding metal would sound like.</p>
<p>pg129 of 131<br />
Rita Zirnheld<br />
It &#8216;&#8217;sounded like spttering&#8221; and &#8221;engine was coughing.&#8221;</p>
<p>pg130 of 131<br />
Barbara Garrett<br />
She said the plane engine was making loud noises, as though metal was banging and clattering.</p>
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